Responses to "Intro to shoegazer..."

Some comments/corrections have come in regarding the shoegazer page. Here they are...

shoegazer vs. madchester

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:55:37 +0100
From: Vishal Banypersad

Hello. Like your Shoegazer page on the website. Was nice to see Slowdive,
Chapterhouse, Ride et al on it!!!!!!! One point: Madchester and Shoegazer
are two completely different genres.

Madchester (as it suggests) is an early 90's north England genre of
"baggy" indie-dance and whirly guitars. See.....The Stone Roses, Happy
Mondays, Charlatans, Northside

Shoegazer is primarily southern based. It's typically noise or dream pop
with walls of distorted multi effects layered on top. Most songs had
barely coherent vocals and the members of the bands tended to stare at
the stage whilst they played live. There was little dance in the music.
So The Stone Roses weren't really shoegazer despite the fact they were an
amazing band. MBV and Ride, along with Slowdive were probably the best at
the genre.

Laters,

Vish.
 

untitled (perhaps "mikewong you have no clue")

Date: 19 Jun 2001 18:54:55.0875 (UTC) 
From: Carri Farrand

okay, so, i just went to this website.  again, i am sorry, i just didn't 
have time to focus on this last week.  wow.  i am a HUGE shoegazer fan, and 
i think i disagree with almost everything you said.  my opinions are too 
many to write.  but, i will try.  i will preface all this by saying that i 
appreciate how much you care about this music, and it is really cool that 
you went to all this trouble.  and, i agree that we should hang out because 
people who love shoegazer, in DC especially, are few and far between.

My first problem is that you very much are confusing Britpop with shoegazer. 
  I don't think the Stone Roses have a shoegazer bone in their entire body.  
also, you never once talk about Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, The Dark Side, or 
Spectrum.  I don't think you could begin to have a thorough talk about 
shoegazer without talking about Jason Spaceman (aka Jason Pierce) or Sonic 
Boom.  I mean, come on.  I do agree that Loveless is the most amazing 
shoegazer album ever made.  True.  very very true.  But, what about laser 
guided melodies, Recurring, ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space, 
etc?

The fact that you would comment on Going Blank Again, and barely touching on 
Nowhere is practically sacrilege.  Vapour Trail is the quintessential Ride 
shoegazer anthem.  And, you say "maybe some early Catherine Wheel"????  What 
the hell kind of album do you think Ferment is?  IT IS SHOEGAZER!  It is 
amazing.  It is nothing but noise and craziness and beauty.

Another question.  What do you think Psychocandy is?  SHOEGAZER!!  When did 
it come out?  well before 1991.  I think 1987, but i could be a bit off on 
that.  and, there is NOTHING shoegazer about the Charlatans or Inspiral 
Carpets.  They are britpop.  There really isn't anything shoegazer about 
Primal Scream either.  They are just one of my favorite bands.

This: "This band's influence on music makers around the world rivals that of 
the Velvet Underground." is almost sacrilege too.  You realize the Velvet 
Underground MADE shoegazer happen.  They influenced the band Suicide in the 
70's who really created the first wholly shoegazer record.  In fact, the 
first time i heard it, i thought i was listening to Spiritualized, but it 
was actually Suicide, and i was shocked that the Suicide record was released 
in 1979 (i think).  10-15 years before Spiritualized.  Amazing.

Miki is Lush's singer, and Blur is britpop.  Curve is a good choice.  The 
Verve should have gotten a lot more.  They are amazing, and very shoegazer.  
Storm In Heaven is incredible.  i just don't see how anyone would give 
shoegazer cred to Loop before any of the Jason Spacemen/Sonic Boom.  Man, 
still blown away by that.

The Boo Radleys are shoegazer, but only in the beginning.  Their most 
shoegazer record (and the best on in my opinion) is Giant Steps.  their last 
few records are pure pop.

Okay, now i guess you did have a disclaimer saying that some of the further 
listening bands weren't necessarily shoegazer.  okay.  and, i guess that 
your list is purely subjective.  i get it.  i still think it is cool that 
you did it.  i am just REALLY opinionated when it comes to music.  as are 
most music lovers i guess!

...

okay, i was thinking about this more.  here are a couple of things i forgot 
to mention, and my rendition of how it all went down:

I dunno, I see Madchester and Shoegazing as distinct moments in pop 
music...brief record geek commentary... quickly thought out, so may have 
holes...

Madchester (around 88 to 91) -- bands solely from Manchester and abouts,
influenced by raves, beats and e more than anything else. trying to be
(brilliant) traditional rocknroll bands, but absorbing a lot of
nontraditional influences as well as tradtional ones (e.g. Happy Mondays
were obsessed with Donovan, Stone Roses with the Clash). None were
traditional indie bed-sit bands. More rough-and-tumble, poor, working class 
kids in the bands with a lot of criminal activity in the background (Happy 
Mondays and Charlatans had run-ins with the law / arrest records...) 
Northern England (Manchester) epicenter.

ShoeGazing (around 90 to 93) -- precursor was J&MC's Psychocandy, layers of 
noise, and US guitar rock (Dinosaur Jr. and Husker Du chiefly)... Alan McGee 
signed MBV after seeing them live and though they were like HuskerDu. You 
have the traditional twee post-J&MC (early Primal) guitar stuff, too, but 
that was c86 bands and stuff -- a bit removed. And a few bands took their 
cue from the Cocteau Twins. Some crossover, since Primal Scream, who is not 
from Manchester, released a great dance record at the height of Madchester.  
Different approaches to it, though... Cocteau Twins were nothing like Pale 
Saints were nothing like MBV were nothing like Ride were nothing like 
Chapterhouse were nothing like Catherine Wheel were nothing like Lush except 
for some "dreamy" quality... More college-educated, middle class kids in the 
bands, I think, but of course with exception. more indie (small diy label,
e.g sarah), too. Southern England (London) epicenter, but cosmopolitan.

BritPop (93 to dunno when to call it quits???)-- Started when Blur stopped 
trying to cross Madchester with Shoegazing and went all Kinks-ey with 
"Modern Life Is Rubbish". Suede, Autuers, Adorable, Pulp (even though been 
at it for 10 yerars by then), "New wave of new wave".... London.